meep meep

Gee Nova, I don't know what left-wing propaganda you read about German and Italian internment camps, but you are flat out wrong.

The U.S. government's own statistics indicate that over 10,000 Germans were interred during WWII, on top of that, over 11,000 Italians were interred, and they weren't all foreign born, self-proclaimed Mussolini supporters either, as you so inacurately claim. In addition over 600,000 German, Italian, Bulgarian, Hungarian, Czech, and Romainians were classified as "enemy aliens". These people had travel restrictions forced on them, forced curfews, and suffered property confiscations. You want specifics, you just let me know.

Next time you want to idly dismiss something, try doing more than just an basic Google search on it. I have studied this particular series of events in depth, and you do not know what you're talking about.

Your drivel about racism is also insulting. What is so wrong with someone casting aside racial labels, and calling themselves an "American" first and foremost? It is this labelling of people as "- Americans" that is so divisive in this country. No matter how you try to spin and or hide it, your label of Michelle Malkin is a racist statement.

Mistreatment of POWs in the War on Terror? Are we talking about Abu Graib, or Club Gitmo?

And one final thing. Your statement, "people who don't offer their lives for the causes of the aristocracy have little moral ground to stand firm on when supporting the troops". Really? Do you REALLY believe that statement?!? Because I haven't offered up my life, I have no moral ground to stand on, when supporting the troops?

Well DAMN YOU. Damn you all the way to hell. How DARE you make such a statement? For your information, I have a physical defect that prevented me from JOINING the armed forces when I was younger, and believe me I tried. FOR YOUR INFORMATION, my father, his three brothers, and HIS father were ALL decorated members of the U.S. Armed Forces. My step-son's biological father is a current member of 1st Battalion, 24th ID Stryker Brigade, they served in Iraq and Afghanistan. I have become close friends with many of these people. My association alone should be enough to stand up in support of our men and women in uniform. However, my care and concern for this great nation should be enough to stand up and be counted in support of these folks.

Unlike the left wing pukes, who during my father's service to this country in Vietnam, felt compelled to protest the homecomings of our troops. To stand along the sidelines en masse, as the troops would come home, throwing bags of shit and urine at the troops, holding signs declaring them baby killers. Oh no....no Nova, you can be DAMN sure if you and your lefty kool-aid drinkers EVER try that bull$hit again, it will not go unanswered.

You wanted my revulsion? Well sir, you GOT IT.

Once again, breathe-taking, really stunning. My quest for Hegelian dialectic is thwarted once more...
Is calling someone a race-traitor a racist remark? Let's refer to those damn smarty-pants "experts" over at Webster.

"Pronunciation: 'rA-"sist
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities..."
Perhaps my comment bordered on the appearance of this belief, suggesting a "trait" whereby being an Asian-American would or should instill a latent empathy for the plight of other Asian-Americans. Indeed the opposite appears to be true; I don't think being of Asian descent has much of an impact on, let alone is the "primary determinant" of what she believes in her heart of stony, ice-cold, barren hearts. As I cited her before: "I'm not Asian, I'm American."
"...and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."
Nope, don't believe that one, either. Thanks for making me look it up though; I feel like I just took a soul-shower.
I guess what I should call her, more generally is a human-being-&-American-traitor. She defends the mistreatment and nullification the civil rights of American_CITIZENS_of Asian descent, and then proceeds to cleverly dove-tailed her argument into moral equivalency with the current mistreatment of detainees of the War on Terror. The logic intersects such cases as Hamdan vs. Rumseld today. Hell, even St. Paul in the first century AD understood the importance of being a Roman citizen; they would have crucified him on the spot otherwise, before he had a chance to proselytize and go down in flames as a martyr. Hamdan doesn't even get that right...
Don't know if that satisfies either of your scent-of-blood-when-faced-with-a-liberal-who-touches-upon-racism-because-you-know-they-are-more-racist-than-us rage, but anyway...

BK, I actually was not aware of the Other Internment in WWII. (Sidenote: "I think a broad base of trivial knowledge is secondary to intellectual rigor and original source study in the pursuit of history," he says, as he ducks back into his ivory tower...) So what do you know, I Googled it. What did I find? 110,000 people of Japanese descent interned, the great majority of who were American citizens. 10,000 people of Italian descent, the great majority of who were not American citizens, and many of who were self-confessed Mussolini sympathizers. 1,600 people of German descent, most of who were not American citizens, and many of who were self-confessed Nazi-sympathizers. First, given the evidence, I don't believe that these three events are entirely morally equivalent. Secondly, my underlying problem with it is the failure to offer an effective system of due process for any of these people.

Pertaining to the newscast, gosh, those 18 year olds are so immature. Hmm, if people are so immature when they are so young, is it a little worrisome or alarming that I see about 1 in 4-6 of the soldiers killed in Iraq under the age of 21. (Note: this is anecdotal, not factual, just a mental tally when I see the names and faces scroll by on the PBS News Hour with Jim Lehrer. I don't feel like Googling just now.)
"Main Entry: re·vul·sion
Pronunciation: ri-'v&l-sh&n
2b : a sense of utter distaste or repugnance"
Your comments may fall into this definition. Mine do. I'll be clear that what I feel definitely qualifies as revulsion. War is the absolute worst thing in the world, hopefully troubling on some level to anyone who values human life, even if you don't buy into the "culture of life" club. Disaster without parallel. I don't ever conflate militarism with patriotism, and people who don't offer their lives for the causes of the aristocracy have little moral ground to stand firm on when supporting the troops. Old men talking and young men dying. I find it distasteful and repugnant.
One final point, Balk, you should be pissed if college students skip class to protest because you subsidize them with your taxes. Care to write letters yet, decrying the libs in the school system? You could effect change...

Larry: In any of my blog, did it mention that I gave a rip as to what college students do with time? I was hoping it was evident that it focused on the public school system, specifically Seattle City Schools. If a college student wants to waste their money by frolicking in the streets so be it. It's their loss.

I really don't see the educational value in joining a single-sided mob with one sole viewpoint . Is that supposed to be intelectually stimulating? Hardly. True civics is learned through discourse of various viewpoints, not yelling mindlessly in agreement at a person with a bullhorn. I feel saddened that you think that many of these children got a better education out their then in a debate class.

"...They arent skipping, since they get homework in the absense of class.

I really fail to see the problem"

Thats the problem, Larry. For a blatent truancy, the Seattle School District is rewarding them by giving them a pass by giving them makeup work. How many makeup assignments were you given for an unexcused absence? None? For being a non sanctioned event for Seattle Schools, these kids are gettting off rather easy, and that steams me to no end. The message? Skipping school pays off. The new excused abcence-of-the-day in Seattle City Schools? "I'm traumitized by what's happening in Iraq." Don't forget those Skinheads and KKK members too. They need their excused abcenses to make their cross burnings on time. What an education that will be.

Nova: If they want to brush up on their interpersonal skills so that they can feel like a community, I suggest they do it off campus, or at lunch. Political rallies are far from the only place to learn such "valuable" lessons.

Tread lightly on racism. Regardless on if you or a bunch of "experts" do not agree with a book she published, there should be no excuse for ever describing a person so derogitorily based on the color her skin.

Part of the point in protesting is that it is somewhat disruptive. Civil disobedience does this in a controlled and respectful way, in seattle we have a permitting process to inform the police about demonstrations and protests to protect both the people protesting as well as the general passers by. So holding a protest in downtown at 7pm when everyone can safely attend is largely pointless, you loose the exposure, you loose the impact.

Additionally, by going durring the day durring school hours students send a message to everyone that they feel stongly enough about how they feel about the war on Iraq.

Ok so maybe you dont care, but why should anyone care? Students have no responsiblity to go to class, they only have a responsability to make satisfatory academic progress. Part of being in college is being given the ability to make your own choices about what you do. As long as my grades dont slip why should any taxpayer give a flying leap about when/if i do nto attend classes. We do not afford this luxury to the k-12 education system becuase it is largely thoguht that these "babes" as you put them do not have the capability to self regulate. Sure some college students will take the responsability too far and befor you know it they have flunked out, but guess what they would have flunked out weather you force them to go to class or not.

Just as i do not judge all conservatives by what you lay down in this blog, so should you not judge all of high school students by the 2 or 3 you saw on the wonderfully accurate local news.

*gas station attendant* I can sense your sarcasm.
*david spade* I should hope so, I am laying it on pretty thick.


So....

Its not an issue about missing education since it is a great learning experience

They arent skipping, since they get homework in the absense of class.

I really fail to see the problem

Larry,

I never said I care if a college student misses class, I only stated that the person spotting them tuition might not be too happy about it. I thought that was pretty clear.

Generalizing the entire student population from what I heard on TV is moronic? No, what was moronic was what I heard out of the mouths of these babes. They were completely clueless, and it should be a huge embarassment for the SSD.

Something else I find moronic; the idea that this had to disrupt the school day. I have yet to hear a good arguement against this. There are 24 hours in a day, last time I checked, and school is usually no more than 6.5 hours.....hmmm....maybe they need to go to a remedial scheduling class, or perhaps basic clock reading?

If a college student misses a class why do you care? They are still responsible for the material, they are still tested, and they still pass. If they want to spend thier time protesting the war they should. As a student at UW who pays his own tuition I considered joining in the walkout, but had an important project due and made a choice.

It is not like the students who chose to walk out didn't make a choice as well, in the very article you linked balki they say that they create extra homework for the students who decide they can miss class. Besides this protest (weather you support it or not) is hands on learning for students all around seattle, and the SSD didn't have to pay for it. There is educational value in learning how to effect change. One of the best things to come out of the 2004 election was the incredible mobilization of the young voting population where we havent seen such mobilization in the past.

If the students were skipping class to do nothing, I would agree with you, but they are skipping class to learn about part of the political process, and in a way that is impossible to teach in the classroom. Regardless of how stupid they sounded on TV (and you have to realize that generalizing the entire mass of student protesters by what they show on TV is moronic) they were learning the entire time.

Nova,

Far be it from me, to not answer your question about the "anti-war rally" I attended....and No, at the time, I recall not feeling revulsion for the anti-war protestors....just pity really, for being so woefully uninformed. As is typical.

Luv & Hugs,
BK
:)

Hmm...so its okay for a leftie to make "harmless" below the belt comments about race, etc? I can only imagine the outrage had a conservative said something like that about any number of minority liberals. Not condoning it, only pointing out the obvious double-standard of political correctness. Yet again.

Back to the original topic, oh gawd love those little protestor-lights. It was almost as I had predicted. "We, like, wanted to, you know, like skip class, like"? Did anyone happen to catch any of the local news coverage of the event? A few "man on the street" interviews were conducted with these darlings of the anti-war pukes. The intellectual giants of the Seattle school district on display for all. It was TRUELY awe inspiring, and just one more reason my kids will go to private school.

Oh, and Nova, you wouldn't have been the creepy 29 y/o there alone. There were several college students (much to the dismay of those who pay thier tuition, I'm sure) not to mention a Professor from Seattle U!

One more thought: You want to talk about the Japanese internment camps of WWII? Well, then lets not forget the German and Italian camps either, shall we? Everyone ELSE always does...like it never happend. THAT offends ME as a historian!

Ooh ooh ooh. Me, me, me! (nerdily raising hand...)
BK, did you also feel revulsion toward the anti-war crowd in your rally, or was the revulsion only heading in one direction? I would assume it goes in both direction, as it often boils down to "You're unpatriotic!" vs. "You're perpetuating the imperialism of Whitey!"
Frankly, I can't really believe that high-school students are mature beings, eager to embrace rational thought, and take a place in steering the world to a better tomorrow. But what I do support fully and whole-heartedly is nuturing the process by which a few of them will do just that. Life experience is such a large part of personal growth, and a moment that fosters this awakening is fine by me. Hell, I quoted a Brad Pitt movie, so why don't I quote a Whitney Houston song next.... "I believe the children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way...."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051101-23311300-bc-us-warprotest.xml
So there is part one of my answer, Balk. It's a student protest, and 29-year-old guys hanging around is a little creepy ;)
Part two is that I don't really run in the anti-war activist circles, so I wasn't aware of the protest anyway.
The protest is for students, by students. Civil disobedience requires disobeying something, and I'd rather have them skipping school (something they have in common, and could do together,_civilly_disobeying_) than say, ignoring stop signs for a day, a much more dangerous form of civil disobedience.
And to clarify, I don't really think Michelle Malkin, first first generation Filipino-American, is a race-traitor; it was actually just a harmless jab below the belt. I don't really believe in the term "race traitor" anyway. Skin color is only a part of who any of us are. She would agree, often saying, "I'm not Asian, I'm American"
From Wikipedia:
"In 2004 she (Malkin) wrote a book entitled In Defense of Internment, defending Japanese American internment by the United States Government in the West Coast during World War II and relating this theme to the contemporary War on Terrorism. The book drew heavy criticism across the political spectrum, including an (unsuccesful) attempt to ban the book from the Manzanar relocation center national park [4]. A group of university professors banded together under the name 'The Historians' Committee for Fairness' and condemned the book for failing to meet peer review standards and containing a central thesis which did not stand up to scrutiny."
The logic of the Japanese Internment has long since been debunked as racist hysteria, foreshadowing the Red Scare of the 50's.
One of my favorite episodes of Seinfeld was the one where Jerry's WASPy nemesis Banyan adds jokes about Jewish culture to his horrible comedy routine. When someone asks him after the show, noticing the disgust in Jerry's face, "I'm sorry, does that offend you as a Jew?", he replies "No, it offends me as a comedian!"
So you see, my real problem with MM is not so much her latent racism, but her lack of historical rigor, and wildly incendiary lack of integrity and even-handed reporting. She rarely offends me as a liberal, she offends me as a historian!
In conclusion, as you may read above, the party line of the SSD is that they do not support the protest, so it looks like you are up in arms over a few rogue teachers. If you want the few repremanded, I suggest you exercise your democratic freedom and write a letter.
P.S. Care to answer the original question, Balk??? Yer duckin' me agin...

I'll leave the racism alone, but it seems that Michelle won't:

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003823.htm

Nova: I’m going to leave your racist remark of Michelle Malkin alone.

As for your thought that we want to suppress a person’s right to protest, I’ll give you 2 facts that disprove your arguments:

1. There are no locks on the schools preventing kids from leaving. They are free to choose to go to this rally. They just need to know the consequences for skipping an important part of their young lives. There should be no free pass. Part about learning is about making choices, then owning up to any consequence those choices provide.

2. I have never seen in any lesson plan in a mathematics, physical education, or science class a discussion in the importance of civil disobedience. So why is attending an anti-war rally a good substitute to learning in these classes?

I now have a question for you, Nova. Why didn’t you go to the rally? Afraid to miss work?

Hmm....am _I_ supposed to comment here?!?

Nova, remember my answering your direct question earlier? I am now asking you one: Please tell me WHY Michelle Malkin is a "race traitor"? I suppose thats something like "Clarence Thomas isn't really a black man"(Milwaukee Journal Sentinel), right? Just wanting to hear the justification for this.

As for the right to gather and protest, I don't believe that anyone is denying these little crumb-crunchers their day out in the rain, decrying the unfairness of armed conflict. But what I DO have a problem with is their missing school to do so. Was THAT part of it entirely necessary? I am VERY glad that you would support a PRO-WAR rally in the same regard, but again I would not, if it were during school time. After all, the school day is only 6 hours long, CERTAINLY this can be done after school.

You see, I was a senior in highschool when we defended Kuwait in 1991. I am not so old that I forgot what it was like to BE in highschool. ANYTHING....A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G, to get out of class. During Operation Desert Storm, members of my class organized a similar anti-war protest. A large group of my friends and I went, just to get out of class. Of course, WE showed up with our Pro-Troop signs and American flags. My friends and I showed up in all our Imperialistic, jingoistic, patriotic, pro-American filth. We were shouted at and reviled. We loved it. The point of all this? Most kids HATE school, and will do anything to get out of it. This, to me, just seems to be an easy vehicle for it.

Am I even supposed to respond? Am I even supposed to believe you or your race-traitor buddy (yeah, I've been saving that one for a while) Michelle Malkin would raise a stink if it was a support our troops rally?
Protest, the right to peacefully gather, the right to question authority (I'm pretty sure the Revolution was based on that last one) are not just protected by the Constitution, but are absolutely necessary to the preservation of American life.
"War is old men talking and young men dying." Of all the darn places, that one was from that left-wing Citadel, Hollywood, in the movie Troy.
Well, Balk, you and I have almost safely transitiioned to middle-age with out being drafted, so now we can both start talking, safe from ever having to face the Supreme Sacrifice.
I hope the next generation sheds militarism, and let these voices mean something. Life and death means more than failing the day in school, but nevertheless, I'm glad there are teachers willing to see the value in the experience of civil disobedience. And just to show my complete lack of bias ;), I'd be willing to support the same treatment of a pro-war rally in Seattle.
Here's a question, Balk, ever been to a rally or protest? The unique sense of community it offers, the catharsis of voices in unison? Maybe it's just another church for a religious burn-out like me :)